On the occasion of his book, "Hidden Spiritual Beauty" (published by Armos), Dimitris Karagiannis, child psychiatrist-psychotherapist, talks about systemic psychotherapy, evil, instincts and drives, and says that "kindness can, in its authentic expression, be an expression of psychic beauty."
As a preface to your book, you thank four authors. Dostoevsky, Camus, Hugo, and Kierkegaard. Three writers and one philosopher, not a psychiatrist or psychoanalyst or psychologist. How should we interpret this connotation?
I am glad for the mention because you give me the opportunity to refer to the dedication of my book to Fyodor Dostoevsky, Albert Camus, Victor Hugo and Siren Kierkegaard, to these friends of my youth, who accompany me to this day. The dedication of a book is not formal. It contains gratitude. At the time of writing “Hidden Psychic Beauty”, I realized that as I recorded my clinical experience, similar feelings arose within me to those I had from my childhood and adolescence when I read their own recordings. These authors did not simply remain on the surface of some descriptions. Some stories. They wondered about the behind-the-scenes of human behavior. They penetrated souls. And this is their common element that also meets my own recordings. As writers they describe harsh situations, containing illnesses, mental deficiencies, miserable and violent situations, crimes. However, as anatomists of the soul they do not condemn any person, they look in depth. Therefore, while they describe negative actions, they insist on reading people's souls. At the same time, there are psychiatrists who only focus on symptoms.
Systemic is not about yet another theory, but has direct clinical applications, as we do not deal with the person as a disturbed patient, but rather we look for the disturbed relationships that produce disturbed behaviors.
You are a specialist in the so-called Systemic Therapy, and you are even the President of the relevant Greek Federation. Would you like to tell us, in a few words, what are the characteristics of this therapeutic approach and what differentiates it from, for example, cognitive or psychoanalytic or others?
The Systemic perspective records that man is a bio-psycho-social entity and therefore his behaviors must be examined within these frameworks. This means that no person is cut off from the conditions that apply in the family and social system. The main element of the systemic perspective is the view of man, not as an individual, but as a person, that is, as an interacting member. His life is not cut off from his surroundings, the people and the conditions in which he participates. Systemic does not concern yet another theory, but has direct clinical applications, as we do not deal with the man as a disturbed patient, but we look for the disturbed relationships that produce the disturbed behaviors. Systemic finds excellent application in family therapy, in couple therapy, where there is currently a huge demand for services, as well as in personal and group psychotherapy. The therapist in systemic therapy is not an uninvolved observer, but is in a personal relationship with his client. Therefore, he is required to have undergone long-term psychotherapy, so that his own personal experiences do not constitute an obstacle, but a tool in the therapeutic process. Today in Greece, systemic psychotherapy is an important entity in the field of mental health and new mental health specialists choose it for their training in psychotherapy.
We record the whole of man not only on his surface as a social self, nor limited only to the dark sides of the unconscious. Searching for the self not in what it has been trapped in, but in what it has the right to be.
You talk about "mental beauty." Why not about goodness? Beauty is an aesthetic value, while goodness is more of a moral one. Do these two concepts intersect somewhere?
Indeed, beauty is usually identified with aesthetics and sometimes limited only to it. In our view, beauty is an ontological concept. Psychic beauty is a structural element of the psychic organ. It is found in the depths of existence. Like precious minerals buried deep in the earth. We record the whole of man not only on his surface as a social self, nor limited only to the dark sides of the unconscious. Searching for the self not in what he has been trapped in, but in what he has the right to be. Kindness is often called in everyday life as a benevolent attitude towards other people. But it can often concern a superficial attitude of care towards other people. Underestimating oneself and overlooking difficulties. Hidden psychic beauty cannot be identified with kindness, if kindness is only a behavior that tries to deny difficulties and dysfunctions. The psychopathology that truly exists in all people. Ultimately, kindness in its authentic expression can be an expression of spiritual beauty.
(…) evil is indeed “bad” for man, not for moral reasons, but for real ones, since it deprives one of the possibility of experiencing, in everyday life, the beauty of life.
"No one is evil," says the Socratic quote you quote. Can it evil, which is proven to exist, to exist without bad people? Or, would you say, that we are all capable of evil, without necessarily being bad?
Evil does not exist ontologically in human nature. Failures in personal life are not due to the ontological existence of evil. It is the unprocessed failures and wrong choices that give rise to evil and not evil that creates the wrong choices. This view is important because evil is without substance, it is meaningless. Therefore, evil is powerless to harm the human entity, if the person himself does not choose it. That is, the person in his freedom, is the one who is responsible for his choices and the destruction of human nature and the environmental ecosystem is a consequence of his wrong decisions. Ultimately, it is important to understand that evil is indeed “bad” for man, not for moral reasons, but for real ones, since it deprives you of the possibility of living, in everyday life, the beauty of life.
As you explicitly state at one point, you question the drive or “death instinct” and destruction, an important component of Freudian and psychoanalytic theory. Is it possible, I ask, that without this component, human actions remain incomprehensible to us? How can the horrific reality of wars and the unspeakable violence that humans inflict on each other be explained without this theoretical “tool”?
The dark self of people emerges where survival prevails in life. Where archaic needs dominate and demand their immediate coverage. The defense of individuality in a competitive and hostile world. An extreme individuality that ultimately turns against itself, since it excludes the loving relationship and the eucharistic experience. Instincts, having a biological basis, are connected to basic survival needs. With physical needs such as hunger, thirst and the avoidance of pain. With the need for sexual satisfaction and reproduction. The drives constitute an intense mental drive and aim to reduce mental tension from physical stimulation. They function with the feeling of pleasure and with the feeling of dissatisfaction. According to Freudian views, there are two types of instincts: sexual drives (libido), which are the drives for life, survival, reproduction and pleasure, and secondly, death drives. These represent a subconscious desire for destruction, self-destruction and a return to a lifeless state. According to Freud, death drives can be expressed through aggressive, destructive and self-destructive behaviors.
This book challenges traditional psychological understandings that insist on the dynamics of the death instinct. It insists that destructive impulses have no entity, but arise where the light of life is absent.
In our understanding, the dark self includes all these elements recorded in the psychodynamic understanding, but it is not the main power of the psychic organ. We consider it to be an important component of human existence, as it possesses archaic elements that serve survival. This book challenges traditional psychological perceptions that insist on the dynamics of the death instinct. It insists that destructive impulses have no entity, but arise where the light of life is absent. In our understanding, the innate power is psychic beauty and the death instinct is the wounded reaction, when man cannot experience what he longs for. The human soul is not controlled only by instincts, but potentially possesses inexhaustible deposits of psychic beauty that demand their exploitation.
You talk about a “social self,” a “false self,” a “dark self.” You also talk about an “authentic self.” Is the authentic self a composite of the above, or a completely different psychic reality?
The authentic self is not the complete one. The perfect one. The definitive one. It is constantly under construction. The authentic self is not untouched by decay, by aggression, by the malice of others towards it, but also by its own malice towards others. It has not become a god. But it can be human. To experience humanity. To eucharistically rejoice in the gift of life. Not all the elements of the false self have disappeared. There are many moments when it feels that it would like not to see its whole truth. That it seeks to give an alibi to its dark self. However, it cannot rest on its laurels. It cannot silence its desire. The authentic self is that which has been grafted by the core of beauty, so that any existing elements of the personality have not been lost, but can exist and serve the gift of life.
You also speak of the “healing gaze,” the “healing gaze.” Can one encounter such a gaze outside of therapeutic practice?
The healing gaze is the one that does not tolerate, that does not give in. The gaze that highlights. It highlights because it can see even those that are not seen. The gaze that penetrates the skin and is directed to the soul. The gaze that can express sadness, but never sadness. That can have difficulty, but does not cause fatigue. That names the obstacles, but gives prospects. The loving gaze gives the certainty that life does not stop at any mistake, at any failure. It does not surrender to the ease of despair. It defends the possibility of repentance, that is, the reconstruction of the mind. The loving gaze is not necessary only for children who open up to life, but for all of us, and especially in the moments when we feel vulnerable, when we know our mistake and ask someone to give us the strength to continue. The moment when the gaze of another person highlights you, while you feel like you are "nothing", is a shocking and at the same time transcendent experience. This gaze is something that all people who have received from their parents, from their partner, from their teachers, from their friend or from an unknown passerby cannot forget. They feel that it accompanies and frames them throughout their lives.
It is not enough, you say, to do the right thing once, this is a continuous struggle. And the example of Schindler is mentioned, who after taking this commendable series of actions, hiring Jews in his factory, saving 1200 people from the crematoriums, then fell into debauchery and indifference. What is the significance of the act in your view of man?
Change is angry if you don't defend it! Changes that lead to strikingly different behaviors, such as: "Myself before and my self after", are statements that hide the false self in a new package. The superficial change, however, will be overturned at the first difficulty. Schindler for a moment left the superficiality and felt the humiliation of the people in the Auschwitz camp affecting him. He was shocked by human suffering. He was moved. He tuned in with the condemned. The end of the war finds Schindler returning to his habits. By fleeing to Argentina, he has no continuity with the source that inspired him. He was destroyed in his family and career. He failed. The end of life finds him only, an alcoholic, surviving on benefits. In other words, the act is important and proves the authenticity of your value system. But the act is the one that is the consequence of an internal processing and not an opportunistic attitude.
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