Well-known psychiatrist Dimitris Karagiannis speaks to HuffPost and to Demosthenes Gaveas, in a comprehensive discussion, on the occasion of his new book "Hidden Psychic Beauty".

It seems out of place to talk about psychology and philosophy in an era where multiple crises and geopolitical instability dominate. It seems almost hubris to examine the inner problems of the self, when poverty is rampant, war rages, and everyday life is burdened with anxiety.

But is it really a luxury to focus on the journey towards self-knowledge, when darkness seems to swallow the world? Is mental pain something separate from social and political upheaval? Are the gray that suffocates our collective soul and the fake smiles that cover our loneliness any less real because they do not belong in statistics or development indicators?

And are technological developments, which promise to bring about a new era, even an "upgraded" human being, ultimately the solution? Or are we in danger of losing the essence of our existence in the attempt to create a new self?

Deepening the soul is not disconnected from reality. On the contrary, it can prove to be the key to enduring, understanding and giving meaning to life, even in its darkest moments, assures us the well-known child psychiatrist-psychotherapist, director of the Center for Child Mental Health and author Dimitris Karagiannis on the occasion of his new book “The Hidden Psychic Beauty” (Armos Publications).

Mr. Dimitris Karagiannis abhors easy solutions, recipes for happiness and the paths of positive psychology that often conceal rather than heal. Our discussion focuses on universal human issues, on the anxieties of all of us. We talk about ways of survival in a world more confused than ever and about a psychology that is not afraid to touch the difficult and the painful.

– You wrote the book between Athens and America. I read it between the “bubble” of the international community of Brussels, the blatant contradictions of London and the more humane, but deeply neurotic Athens. In all these places, a pattern seems to dominate: alienation and loneliness. Is this, perhaps, the common fate of modern man?

The postmodern society we live in has transformed into A-Society. It is a way of life that prevents the communion of persons, that is, the authentic relationship and sharing of life. On the contrary, it simply promotes the exchange of knowledge or emotions, without depth. Today, as I mention in the book, Understanding the interaction of the socioeconomic environment with the intrapsychic world is a challenge.

The harshest loneliness is the one we experience in the multitude of A-Society. It is the ultimate loneliness: the loneliness that exists within apparent coexistence.

– In your book you talk about the illusion of acceptance and the pressure for absolute fluidity imposed by modern society. In essence, you are talking about a formation that resembles totalitarianism.

In an era where defending diversity has become the absolute moral norm, it seems absurd for people to fear that they may not identify with the new social norms. They are terrified that they may not be politically correct enough, according to the woke movement.

That is why I support that The postmodern a-society's declaration that it accepts diversity is a lie. It actually eliminates the diversity that wants to have an opinion.

The ethics of postmodern a-society proclaims the pluralism, which however turns out to be totalitarianism, since it does not allow the osmosis of otherness.

Our era, if we look at it through the prism of the economic conditions that govern it, requires absolute liquidity. To be an employee of a multinational company, one must have absolute availability—going wherever one is asked and working whenever one is asked. Therefore, if that person is committed to any form of family or relationship, this is considered counterproductive.

Modern a-society doesn't care about any one person in particular. You can find yourself in the trash, just as easily as you delete a useless text or an outdated application from your computer.

Robbery of souls

It's like they're telling us, "Check on your friend, he might commit suicide." Not, "Have a meaningful relationship with him, so he never gets to that point." This is the shocking thing. We focus on survival, not life. So, if someone is in danger of suicide, send them to a psychiatrist. But no one asks: "What kind of life is this that doesn't allow us to enjoy it?"

It is no coincidence that the highest suicide rates are found in countries with the best welfare indicators.

But how is the happiness index that concerns people and societies defined? Is it only the increase in per capita income? Is it only economic indicators that demonstrate the degree of their happiness?

Doesn't anyone wonder why suicides increase as societies cease to have a unifying perspective and individualistic models prevail, that is, models of individual well-being?

– So what's missing?

The essence of human relationships is missing. The connection is missing. We don't relate anymore. Instead of living relationships, we chase potential and performanceThis is the crucial point.

– In your book you refer to the “psychiatristization of society” and the mass production of mental health workers. Shouldn’t this abundance of specialists contribute to improving mental health?

The mass production of mental health workers, as I call it, often aims to adapt the individual to the demands of modern society, rather than to help him understand himself more deeply or improve the quality of his relationships. Mental health professionals risk being used as the shock absorber of modern a-society in order to absorb the tensions it creates and therefore maintain the good functioning of institutions.

Let me give you an example. If someone is an alcoholic, the goal is not to understand what got them there, but to get them back to work on Monday. The focus of care is on being "functional" rather than living meaningfully or building relationships.

The psychiatry of society goes even further, as normal human reactions—such as sadness, anger, or grief—are pathologized. Instead of allowing someone to experience their difficulty and make sense of it, the solution offered is a referral to a psychologist or psychiatrist, as if the difficulty is not a part of life. Thus, the human dimension of everyday life is lost.

But the goal should be to help the person create, relate, and live meaningfully.

The darkness of existence

– Let’s talk about “Hidden Spiritual Beauty,” which is the title of your book. You say that the core of spiritual beauty cannot be discovered unless we confront our dark self.

Let us say that spiritual beauty is not superficial, nor accessible with easy steps. It is a deep core within the human being, which cannot be discovered without confronting the dark self. The dark self, on the other hand, is not an enemy, if harnessed, but an unexplored energy potential. It includes our fears, our shame, our guilt, and our sorrows—all that we consider weak or undesirable. They are the drives, the aggressive and the sexual instincts. Their complete dominance in the psyche of people also means their spiritual leveling.

So if we leave these elements untreated, then they dominate our lives, like a cancer that spreads unchecked. But if we recognize and process them, then they become a source of strength. The dark self does not disappear, nor does it need to disappear. On the contrary, when we accept it, we can transform it and harness its energy for the benefit of our lives.

Spiritual beauty is revealed only through this process. It is like precious metals found deep in the earth, mixed with soil. We need to dig into our darkness, not to eliminate it, but to discover what lies beneath. This is not a process of guilt or punishment, but of a deep understanding and reconciliation with ourselves.

The dark self is, ultimately, part of our journey towards spiritual beauty. It is a path that requires courage, love, and the ability to endure hardships without identifying with them.

– Difficult path…

Yes, and this process is not something we can achieve on our own. The dark self can only be crossed through relationship with another.We need someone who can stand by us through our difficulties, help us name our darkness without identifying with it. This person can be a therapist, a friend, a parent, a colleague, a grandmother, even a stranger.

It is also very important the look of this person. The gaze that, while recognizing our negatives, does not limit us to them. It is the gaze that looks at us with trust and shows us that we are not just our darkness, that within us there is something deeper and brighter.

Therefore, spiritual beauty does not emerge from a solitary struggle. It needs human contact, relationship, connection.

"No one is evil there"

– “No one is evil,” you insist in your book, but is that so? How is evil related to our dark self? Is evil an autonomous entity? One only has to consider all these tragedies and atrocities that happen in our everyday lives.

Evil, in my view, is not an autonomous entity. It does not exist by itself. It only comes into existence when someone consciously identifies with it. It is the result of being cut off from the core of psychic beauty, relationship, love, and meaning.

Evil does not lie in our dark self, but in the choice to identify with it, to cut ourselves off from light, love, and creativity. Just as darkness is the absence of light, so evil is the absence of meaning and connection.

When meaning is lost, when people isolate themselves, evil finds ground to grow. The solution is not to suppress evil, but to create meaning and relationships. Evil is born when man leaves his dark self unprocessed, but the responsibility of choice is always ours.

– But there are also those people who consciously identify with their dark self.

Indeed, they are the ones who will not encounter their spiritual beauty. They are the ones who have identified goodness with weakness.On the surface they seem strong, but they are tragically complex with low self-esteem.. By destroying life, they take revenge for their own inadequacy to live, and therefore their end is self-destruction.

– What happens when all this deconstruction becomes a dominant element in society? When violence becomes the predominant expression, as we see today with the increasing incidents of teenage violence? It seems like an irreversible situation. How can we react to this?

Teenage violence, often perceived as "pure evil", is in fact nothing more than the absence of meaning and relationshipIt is the cry of a soul that has lost touch with beauty and hope.

My own view differs from what is often said today about teen violence and the "evil" that seems to prevail. In my experience, everything these children, who can easily beat up a classmate, to throw him down and beat him, are the same children who, If a person is found to inspire them, they can volunteer to take care of a classmate with mobility problems. They can lift his stroller and protect him from anyone else.

The question, then, is not how to combat the "evil" that exists in teenagers. We can't just tell them: "Don't fight, don't kill, don't play violent video games." The crucial thing is how we inspire them to do good. How will we show them that life can have meaning, that there can be transcendence, effort, cooperation, companionship.

– But who should do this? If we look at the issue psychiatrically and theoretically, isn't it like removing responsibility from the state? How easy is it for these children, who grow up with an uncertain future and meager salaries, to solve their impasses by simply going to the psychiatrist?

I do not sell or promote psychotherapy. I train psychotherapists, but I do not sell psychotherapy. First of all, when I talk about hidden psychic beauty, I am not referring to something superficial. However, I strongly resist the easy positive interpretations that often mask the real issues, saying: “Everything is fine, do these 7 steps for ultimate happiness.” These are lies. Even if they are covered up with beautiful words and presentations, in essence they create false selves.

I know psychopathology in depth. I wonder if there is any crime or mental disorder that I have not encountered. And at the same time that I know all this dark side, I insist that The solution is not mass referral to psychologists or psychiatrists.

Teachers, professors, parents, cannot abdicate their own responsibility and send children to specialists to "fix" their problems. When they do, they abdicate their own pedagogical role, and then a disastrous situation is created. We are once again suppressing evil, instead of giving it meaning.

– So what is the point?

The point is not to have more psychologists or psychiatrists, one for every person. We don't need to fill society with mental health specialists. What is needed is all of us. to see our lives again, to reexamine it, to ask ourselves: “How can my life be exciting?” If we don’t do this, we will remain trapped in the fantasy of how to escape reality.

Instead of living creatively, we begin to imagine that those who do evil—those who steal, those who rob, those who exploit others—are better off than we are. I tell you with all certainty, these people are not better off.

The solution, then, is not to send children and young people to specialists. The solution is to make our lives and their lives exciting, full of meaning and creation. Let's give them reasons to live and strive for something better.

Now and forever...

– Speaking of the concept of exciting, what could be more exciting than digital technology and artificial intelligence that are radically changing our lives? I would like to ask you specifically about the existential continuity of man: will we still be able to talk about a “self”, when our memories and experiences can be modified or upgraded? And if this new man exists, will he have a completely different perception of good and evil?

Good and evil, in my understanding, do not have a moral dimension, but an existential one. Morals change with the times and with societies, but what benefits man in the long run holds firm in all times.

Human existence is not threatened by technology, but by the lack of meaning and connection. No matter what man achieves in the future, he will still need the Other to give meaning to his existence.

The element that is present and eternal for man is relating. A person alone as an individual cannot exist, he is dead. He has no perspective. Even if the possibilities of technology increase our perceptual and physical capabilities, the existence of the Other will remain necessary for there to be perspective and meaning in our lives.

"Let's humanize robots"

– In your book, you mention the phrase “humanizing robots,” which particularly struck me. Could you explain to us what this phrase means?

What I want to say is that we each have to defend, personally and as a society, the gift of life, the miracle of life. If we don't find a way to humanize our digital world, to humanize the digital integrated programs we call robots, then we will disappear into the labyrinth of the digital worldIf we do not "humanize" robots by setting value parameters, we will become robot-humans.

The digital age feels more than ever the desire to communicate meaningfully, to belong to groups where the personal element is preserved. When people develop relationships and trust, they create new collectivities that balance individual vulnerability.

If these collectivities maintain the human dimension and prevent dehumanization threatened by the conditions of the digital age, then artificial intelligence and technologies will enhance human life. But if we lose this dimension and allow the essence of the human experience to be corrupted, then artificial intelligence will become a mechanism that will live life instead of us.

– You say that the most important powers of people are knowledge and love, these powers are what lead to healing. What is the mystery of healing?

Mystery! (laughter). We're talking about a healing that's never complete. I never use the term healed, because none of us are healed. Healing, if you will, is where the trauma ceases to define you.

Healing is where, after you have been trained, you have had difficulty, you have been tormented by your trauma in order to overcome it, you have also developed abilities – skills that you did not have before. So, Healing is not just the healing of a wound, but also the development of new possibilities., which will allow you to better cope with new traumas, new difficulties.

"Right" is wrong

– How does this collectively work in society? How can a society heal?

If we expect a society to be ideal, to take care of everything ideally, as we would like it to be, it is a childish fantasy and therefore inevitably leads to disappointment and consequently we will complain and give up. If we expect an ideal society to exist on its own, then I tell you that this is not possible.

What can exist is to create groups, communities, frameworks, that are not only functional, but also therapeutic. Because when there is a relationship that is collaborative, it is healing. And then the group itself, the company, the family can overcome any dysfunctions of each member.

That is, we can share even if we disagree and not waste time on misunderstandings about what is right. The "right" produces sadomasochistic relationships.

We can coexist without being perfect, but without at the same time giving up on becoming better.

Populism is psychopathology

– Is that why Greek society, but also other European societies, are divided?

Yes. When we start denouncing our opponents, we have an alibi for not moving forward ourselves.

What is happening right now on a pan-European level is that populists no longer belong to the left or the right. They belong to the whole spectrum. And in particular, they meet because they complain and don't take responsibility. They don't want to govern. They don't want to take the responsibility of governing. They feel very comfortable complaining.

So, the revolutionary thing these days is not to denounce others, governments, societies, cultures, digitality, the past, or morality. It is to take responsibility for each of us to live creatively, to live lovingly, and to have reasons to say thank you for what we are experiencing.

Why Whoever of us can't, has no issues saying thank you. – thank you to people, thank you to situations, thank you to nature, thank you to the universe, anywhere – if there is no reason to say thank you, He is already sunk, dead.

If there's one thing I insist on throughout time, it's this Eucharistic way of life. Otherwise, life doesn't work out.

Mr. Dimitris Karagiannis' book "Hidden Psychic Beauty" is published by Armos Publications